*Trigger Warning* This episode includes sensitive content that some people may find distressing. It is with reference to a case that Lord Thomas presided over. Time Code: 0:49:09

Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd was Lord Chief Justice from 2013 to 2017.

In 2016 Lord Thomas found himself in the eye of the storm when he and fellow judges ruled that the Government needed the approval of Parliament before triggering Brexit. He also endured a turbulent time in his four years at the top of the judiciary, clashing with the then Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Liz Truss.

The interview is conducted by Frances Gibb, journalist and former legal editor of The Times, for a landmark podcast series, The Judges: Power, Politics and the People, hosted by The University of Law.

00:00:00 Intro
00:02:05 Early life
00:03:19 Entry into the law
00:03:35 Becoming a judge
00:05:14 Becoming Lord Chief Justice
00:07:05 Ambitions as Lord Chief Justice
00:09:41 Funding challenges
00:10:33 Changing role of Lord Chief Justice
00:15:27 Clashes with ministers
00:18:01 Brexit ruling
00:20:11 “Enemies of the People” headline
00:24:50 Lord Chancellor Liz Truss
00:32:18 Public perception of the judiciary
00:34:19 Impact of Brexit
00:37:17 Sentencing
00:45:40 Prisons
00:47:14 State of criminal law
00:49:01 Sentencing outlook
00:50:43 Ministers’ attitude to the rule of law
00:55:50 Future challenges immigration, climate change
00:57:54 Balance of power
01:00:46 Future of judiciary