It was once a fringe opinion to say President Biden should drop his reelection bid and Democrats should embrace an open convention. That position is fringe no more. But when the conventional wisdom shifts this rapidly, there’s always the danger of overlooking its potential flaws.


My colleague, the Times Opinion columnist Jamelle Bouie, has been making some of the strongest arguments against Biden dropping out and throwing the nomination contest to a brokered convention. So I invited him on the show to talk through where he and I diverge and how our thinking is changing.


Book Recommendations:


Into the Bright Sunshine (https://global.oup.com/academic/produ...) by Samuel G. Freedman


Wide Awake (https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/wideaw...) by Jon Grinspan


Illiberal America (https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393635928) by Steven Hahn


Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].


You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezrakleinpodcast (https://www.nytimes.com/column/ezrak...) . Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra... (https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra...) .


This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Factchecking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is AnnieRose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.