Dr. John Vervaeke engages in a multifaceted conversation with Dr. Carla Groom, who is ingeniously incorporating cognitive science into her work. Vervaeke provides a scholarly background on mental models, drawing from philosophy and cognitive science to elucidate how humans make sense of their world. Groom shares her frontline experiences, revealing how these theories translate into actionable insights in government. The discussion evolves into a kaleidoscope of ideas, from the dynamics of mental models in decisionmaking to the nuanced philosophy of 'we agency' and collective intelligence. The conversation not only dissects the complexities of problemsolving in the public sector but also expands to the cosmos as they explore how NASA scientists navigate rovers on Mars. Focusing on the intricate balance between human cognition and the demands of large organizational structures, this episode is an intellectual treasure trove for anyone fascinated by the crossroads of cognitive science, governance, and human behavior.

Dr. Carla Groom is a pioneering force in the realm of behavioral science, currently steering the field of HumanCentred Design Science at the UK's Department of Work and Pensions. With a doctorate in social psychology from Northwestern University, she identified fundamental flaws in traditional empirical research methods, leading her to become a luminary in policy and organizational decisionmaking. Dr. Groom's unique practice focuses on debunking false assumptions in policy design by digging deep into contextual human behavior. Not only is she a soughtafter conference speaker and academic peer reviewer, but she also thrives on educating others in her transformative methods. Her multidisciplinary team of experts continually enriches her own understanding, making her a perpetual student in a field in which she has substantially evolved.

Resources:

Dr. Carla Groom: LinkedIn | X
John Vervaeke: Website | Patreon | Facebook | X | YouTube

The Vervaeke Foundation
Circling & Dialogos workshop

John Vervaeke — YouTube:
Bridging Behavioral Science & Government Policies for a Meaningful Work Experience
AI: The Coming Thresholds and The Path We Must Take | Internationally Acclaimed Cognitive Scientist
The Future of Governance:
The Future of Governance Part 1 | Jordan Hall and John Vervaeke
The Future of Governance Part 2 | Jordan Hall and John Vervaeke
The Future of Governance Part 3 | Jordan Hall and John Vervaeke

Climbing Mt. Sophia
Compassion: A Dialectic into Dialogos with John Vervaeke, Christopher Mastropietro and Ryan Barton

Books
Mental Models Philip JohnsonLaird
Dynamics in Action: Intentional Behavior as a Complex System Alicia Juarrero
Context Changes Everything: How Constraints Create Coherence Alicia Juarrero
The Blunders of Our Governments Anthony King, Ivor Crewe
Mentoring the Machines: Orientation Part One: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne
Mentoring the Machines: Origins Part 2: Surviving the Deep Impact of the Artificially Intelligent Tomorrow John Vervaeke, Shawn Coyne

Publications
Predictive processing and relevance realization: exploring convergent solutions to the frame problem Brett P. Andersen, Mark Miller & John Vervaeke
Distributed Cognition and the Experience of Presence in the Mars Exploration Rover Mission Dan Chiappe, John Vervaeke
The Enactment of Shared Agency in Teams Exploring Mars Through Rovers Dan Chiappe, John Vervaeke
The Experience of Presence in the Mars Exploration Rover Mission Dan Chiappe, John Vervaeke
Cognition in the Wild Edwin Hutchins

Miscellaneous
UTOK Conference 2023 | Full Video Library
Mundus Imaginalis or the Imaginary and the Imaginal Henry Corbin
Wolfgang Smith & John Vervaeke at The Meaning Code

People
Brett Andersen
Mark Miller
Geoffrey Hinton
Cory Lewis

Timecodes

00:00:00 Introduction of Dr. Carla Groom and her work on cognitive science integration.
00:01:20 Challenges of understanding assumptions and mental models in problemsolving.
00:07:33 Exploring Philip JohnsonLaird's concept of mental models.
00:15:00 Simulating changes in the UK government's hierarchical system.
00:19:20 Models as emissaries for worldviews.
00:24:31 Discussion on causality in understanding and solving issues.
00:30:09 Hidden factors influencing paths to success.
00:33:20 Anecdote about NASA scientists and rovers.
00:39:07 Importance of understanding a minister's worldview.
00:44:30 Need for new mental models in systemic thinking.
00:47:28 Agreement on evolving worldviews.
00:50:38 Challenge of translating specialist language.
00:55:40 Examining the tension between domain specificity and professional specialization.
00:58:20 Explanation of oscillating between specialized processing and collective reasoning.
01:03:40 Appreciating complexity in government problems.